Dec 4, 2018
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Welcome to this ASCO in Action Podcast. This is ASCO's monthly podcast series where we explore policy and practice issues that impact on oncologists, the entire cancer care delivery team, and the individuals we care for, people with cancer. My name is Clifford Hudis, and I'm the CEO of ASCO, as well as the host of the ASCO in Action Podcast series.
For today's podcast, I'm really delighted to have Dr. Beverly Moy
joining us. Dr. Moy is a medical oncologist at the Massachusetts
General Hospital who specializes in breast cancer care. She's also
an Associate Professor of Medicine at the Harvard Medical School
and a longstanding and dedicated ASCO volunteer. She led the ASCO
roundtable on addressing financial barriers to clinical trials, and
she was one of the authors ASCO's policy statement providing
recommendations to address this important issue. So our
conversation today will focus on the existing financial barriers to
patient participation in clinical trials and how policymakers,
trial sponsors, institutional review boards, and other stakeholders
can help remove and overcome those barriers Dr. Moy, welcome and
thank you for joining me today.
I'm so glad to be here.
By way of background for our audience, only a small percentage of
patients with cancer ever participate in clinical research. And
yet, we know that certain groups, especially people from low
socioeconomic status are underrepresented even in those trials. To
give a little bit of shape to that, no more than 3% or 4% of adults
with solid tumors participate in research studies. And even then,
that number over-represents certain higher socioeconomic groups and
underrepresents others. Can you tell us why this issue is important
to be addressed, and, furthermore, how we might improve the
diversity of clinical trial participation?
So I think it's incredibly important that to improve clinical trial
participation among underserved groups. When I think about how we
can provide the highest quality cancer care, we really can deliver
three basic things-- the best possible standard cancer therapy, the
best possible supportive and palliative care, and the best possible
novel or experimental therapy. So we know that clinical trials are
crucial to the advancement in cancer care. And in the current
genomic era, sometimes these trials may even represent the best
possible treatment option for some of our patients with cancer. We
also know from the medical literature that patients who participate
in clinical trials tend to do better and sometimes even live
longer.
So when access to the best possible experimental therapy is
threatened, optimal cancer care becomes impossible due to financial
barriers. And this is an example of social injustice, where poor or
underserved patients are being deprived of quality cancer care. So
I think that improving the diversity of clinical trial participants
is also critically important.
When we determine a new treatment's effectiveness, the cancer
clinical trial participants really should reflect the general
population of patients with cancer. So as you already said, just a
small percentage-- no more than 5%-- of all adult cancer patients
in the United States participate in clinical trials, most of whom
are white and are from a higher socioeconomic class. That means
that the results of our clinical trials are less generalizable, and
we need to do better.
So I think that's a longstanding issue, and I know that many
listeners are appreciative the efforts to address it. But it raises
a question about the underlying reason for this. And one of them, I
think, is financial, that is financial barriers to participation,
financial barriers to care, and what is now called financial
toxicity. As an aside, we recently conducted a national cancer
opinion survey-- we do this every year-- and one of the striking
observations this year was that 57% of Americans say that if they
received a cancer diagnosis, they would be most concerned about
financial impact or paying for treatment. And that was compared to
54% who said they'd be most concerned about dying or suffering from
the diagnosis. I think it's a remarkable statement that at least a
large proportion of people think first and most profoundly about
the financial implications of a cancer diagnosis as think about the
health consequences.
So if we think about that and then turn back to the clinical trial
situation, it is, I think, true that most clinical trial
participants will have to face even more additional costs that may
prevent them from participating in trials. Can you provide us with
an overview of what some of those additional costs are that
participants face when they consider a clinical research
setting?
So Cliff, I think you're absolutely right and. You know, you're
talking about the general financial burden that any cancer patient
faces is incredibly high. And I actually would reference listeners
to listen to your podcast that you did after the ASCO Quality
Symposium, where you actually talked about a few studies looking at
really the high rates of financial burden that patients just
generally diagnosed with cancer faces.
When you add the complexity of participating in a clinical trial,
not only do you have that general financial burden that a cancer
patient has, but you add additional potential financial costs that
become prohibitive for our poor and underserved patients. So I
think of these additional costs related to clinical trials falling
into really two basic categories. One is gaps in insurance
coverage, and then the second is medical out-of-pocket costs.
So picking the gaps in insurance coverage policies category, we
know the Affordable Care Act was passed in 2010, and it does
require coverage of routine health care costs for patients
participating in clinical trials. But these protections do not
extend to patients with Medicare or Medicaid. It's only for
patients with private insurers, and there are even restrictions
there, which we can go into later. That means our poorer or older
patients are more vulnerable to not having these protections.
These potential costs could consist of things like investigational
care costs, such as this specific therapeutic drug under
investigation, or more likely the cost of additional services that
would not have been required if the patient was receiving standard
therapy. These services could be things like extra blood draws for
safety data or imaging studies that fall outside of the routine
staging exams. So these extra services have the danger of either
being billed to the patient or forcing the patient to pay more
towards their insurance premium due to policies that increase cost
sharing to patients in the modern era.
A second important cost category, which is just as important, if
not more important, would consist of non-medical out-of-pocket
costs resulting from clinical trial participation. So these costs
include travel and lodging expenses, or costs due to lost wages
because they have clinical trial visits, or the need to pay child
care because they have to come into the hospital or the cancer
center more often. So patients participating in clinical trials
often have far more frequent visits than standard therapy, perhaps
at centers that are farther away from their home. If they
participate in early phase first in human trials, they could
require longer days of things like pharmacokinetic testing that
might even require overnight stays in hotels. So these
out-of-pocket costs can be considerable, and prohibitive, and make
it impossible for poorer patients to enroll into clinical
trials.
I know that-- and I'm sure many of our listeners know that-- you're
actually a day-to-day clinician. You see breast cancer patients, as
well as do research at MGH. And I'm interested in the practical
ways that you might have seen these costs directly affect your
patients. Do patients ask about trial costs when you're talking to
studies with them, talking about studies with them? Have you ever
had patients hear about a study and then declined to enroll because
they thought it would be too expensive?
So I think that's a really interesting question, Cliff. And I
think, in the past, when we've presented clinical trials to
patients, the idea of costs never really came up maybe because it
was something that patients didn't feel comfortable bringing up to
their physicians. But now, either costs are becoming more
considerable, or it's being raised into awareness that I think that
patients are much more comfortable talking about it, maybe not at
first, but maybe towards the end of the process.
So in my own practice, I've seen people bringing it up more, and
more, and more, usually even during the consenting procedure when
you're talking about all the extra visits and studies that the
patient may need to have to undergo the clinical trial. I've also
seen patients who've actually enrolled in trials, and they're on
study, and they consider even coming off trial because they didn't
anticipate some of the costs that might happen.
So, for example, recently, I treated a young woman with high risk
breast cancer on an adjuvant CDK4/6 inhibitor trial. And this trial
requires more frequent medical visits and blood testing because of
potential toxicities. And she found that the extra co-pays and
financial costs toward her insurance deductible were completely
prohibitive. And despite conversations, she actually prematurely
dropped out of the trial after only about nine months of therapy.
And this is a single mother of two young kids. That's really not
acceptable that a financial reason was the reason why she couldn't
continue on the trial.
So I think patients are asking more and more for financial
guarantees even before signing consent for clinical trial
screening, and I'm afraid we really can't provide financial
guarantees because that's really not possible for us to do.
So one of the reasons that we bring together volunteer groups like
you've participated in and then publish results at ASCO is not
merely to identify, name, and describe the problem, but in fact to
offer solutions or at least potential solutions. So I want to turn
and talk a little bit about the recommendations that you've made in
the policy statement and through your work.
The most recent policy statement on financial barriers to clinical
trial participation focused, as I understand, on three key
objectives. One was transparency in terms of clinical trial costs
and these gaps in coverage that you've been describing. The second
is reducing concerns about inducement, that is making sure that
whatever we do does itself in an unreasonable way lead to the
perception or reality of induction onto the trial. And finally,
improving data in the course of participation in trials. That is
studying this scientifically like we do other aspects of care.
So let's start with the first objective, transparency. What are
some of the ways that lack of transparency has affected
participation in trials? And how can clinical trial sponsors, or
sites, or investigators help us address the issue of
transparency?
So I think that transparency is a very, very critical issue here.
And one of the potential problems is that lack of transparency
about who is responsible for the specific costs of clinical trial
participation can lead to uncertainty from the patient's part about
what he or she might be responsible for paying in the end. So
often, insurance payers and research sponsors, whether it be
industry or other, they might disagree about who is responsible for
which costs. They might argue about what really constitute truly
safety assessments, what's really routine costs, so generally the
research sponsor covers the costs of additional or more frequent
services that the insurance payer may disagree about what services
are truly additional or more frequent. You know, what is really
standard?
So if a health plan denies coverage for the entire trial or
individual services within a trial the sponsor considers routine,
this could be problematic. So without transparency or protections
the patients run the risk of being billed directly for these
services. So these costs need to be addressed specifically so that
the financial burden doesn't land on the patients in the end.
One of the reasons for the costs being a barrier, of course, is
that clinical research is often very expensive, and at least some
of the recommendations focused on clinical trial design is a way to
reduce costs. What changes do you think sponsors might make to
clinical trials that could directly bring down the costs for
patients? And I would add, especially with regard to those
traditionally facing greater barriers, the populations we're
talking about today.
So clinical trial design is really important because we have to be
very cognizant that what this means to the patient and how we're
burdening them. So clinical trials really need to be more aware of
the financial implications of their study design. So, for example,
excessive follow up medical visits, or additional laboratory draws,
throwing on more imaging studies, or other procedures that are not
absolutely critical to the study really ought to be eliminated
because these costs add up. And if they're not critical, they
really shouldn't be done. There are costs associated with every
test or visit performed. So we really need to reduce the
excessiveness of what's required of patients on clinical
trials.
So in addition to that-- and I mentioned this earlier-- one of the
concerns on the other side is about what happens ethically if we
pay patients directly to defray these out of pocket costs? This is
referred to as an inducement. And around clinical trials, there's
really a high degree of, I think, appropriate concern for inducing
patients on to studies. What are some of the concerns? Do you think
that they're well-founded or overblown? Is there anything that we
can do to remove or address those concerns while defraying the
course of participation?
So I could talk about the ethics about this issue all day long, but
I'll try not to. But I think the theoretical concern that I've
heard often is that financial compensation or reimbursement of
clinical trial expenses could represent a form of inducement or
coercion to enter into a clinical trial. And this probably stems
from FDA and OHRP regulations that clinical trialists should
minimize the possibility of coercion or undue influence on
patients. There may also be a potential hurdle from CMS that the
Social Security Act specifies criminal and civil penalties for
offering financial remuneration to a Medicare or Medicaid
beneficiary that influences the selection of their medical
provider.
So I'm not a lawyer, but I think these concerns are fairly
ludicrous because first, coercion, as a principle, is completely
irrelevant here. From an ethical perspective, coercion involves a
threat that makes a certain choice irresistible, and that is not
relevant in the case of cancer clinical trials. Undue inducement is
also irrelevant because we have multiple examples in the medical
literature that large payments do not disproportionately affect
patients' willingness to do medical tasks, for example even
donating a kidney.
There was actually even a recent article published in JAMA
Oncology, written by some bioethicists from UPenn, that argues that
the worry that offering inducements to participate in research is
inherently wrong. The authors even go so far as to discuss paying
patients for cancer clinical trial participation to make
participation more attractive to a wider population of patients.
And that's really important for both social justice and trial
completion issues.
So the idea of paying patients for trial participation was
something that was brought up even by the patient advocates who
participated at our ASCO roundtable on this subject. The patients
thought, if we're doing this to advance science, shouldn't we be
paid for it? So to remove these concerns, ASCO's partner in our
roundtable, the Lazarex Cancer Foundation who helps fund our
roundtable, they worked with the state of California to sign into
law identifying trial-related expenses to be reimbursed and are
currently working with several other states to do the same, such as
Pennsylvania and even my home state of Massachusetts, and Texas,
Florida, Ohio.
But I do believe that we need federal regulations to remove the
specter of inducements and coercion out of this field because it
simply doesn't belong. So I guess that's my long-winded way of
saying that ethical concerns about paying patients for
out-of-pocket costs associated with trial participation are
completely overblown.
I see.
Sorry if I went on for a while, but I feel pretty strongly about
that.
I was going to say, do you have an opinion on the matter? But one
of the other areas called out in the paper relates to the economic
burden on trial participants versus non-trial recipients and says
that this economic burden data is more than 20 years old, that is
it's not modern. And so it recommends that organizations should,
therefore, pivot and support the building of an evidence base,
research, on the true costs of patient participation trials now in
the current era. So what exactly is the kind of data that we need
and, how would better data, in turn, allow us to reduce barriers to
participation?
So I think that, like all research and data issues associated with
cancer equity in general, we need more data about effective
interventions that reduce the financial and economic burden of
clinical trial participation. We also need data in the modern
health care era about how burdened our clinical trial participants
really are. This data is starting to come in from various single
centers across the United States, but we really need a concerted,
comprehensive, and collaborative effort to examine this important
issue nationwide. But mainly, I do think we need research about
interventions that work to help our poor underserved patients
enroll into cancer clinical trials.
So with all of this said, what do you think ASCO's next steps on
this issue should be? What do you propose? Or what does your group
recommend that we do in a concrete way next?
So I think, first, I want to say that historically I've been
extremely proud to have worked with ASCO because ASCO's really been
a leader in improving access to care for all patients with cancer.
And given ASCO's leadership in the oncology community, ASCO's
really in the unique position of being able to convene this
roundtable that led to this policy statement. And there are
multiple stakeholders at this roundtable, including researchers,
clinicians, industry, insurance payers, the NCI, FDA, Biden,
Moonshot, ethicists, patient advocates, you name it. And ASCO, as a
leading clinical cancer society, really can push this issue forward
based on its leadership here.
I think ASCO ought to demand change through federal regulatory
policy fixes, and disseminate, and possibly even fund relevant
research that we just described earlier today. I think what we're
doing today with this podcast is that we're increasing awareness of
this issue, which is also something that ASCO is doing, and no one
can do better. I would want listeners to become really more aware
of this issue.
The most underserved patients the United States are being deprived
of one of the most important types of cancer treatment options.
This is a social injustice that absolutely needs to be corrected,
and we need the oncology community to be united in solving this
problem.
And that's a really great summary of, I think, the motive and the
ethical drive underneath our work in this. Is there anything else
you'd like listeners to know about the ASCO recommendations? Are
there any parts of this that we've skipped over or failed to
mention?
No, I think that the recommendations are kind of a multi-pronged
group of recommendations to try to attack this problem, and it's
really a first strike in this really important issue. But I think
that what our listeners really should understand is that no
patients should be denied access to a clinical trial for financial
reasons. And no patients should be harmed financially because of
their contributions to the advancement of science. So if we're
united in this belief, then we really can move forward
together.
Well, I love the way you've wrapped that up. And I want to thank
Dr. Moy for joining me today for this ASCO in Action Podcast. I
want to remind everybody that at ASCO, as you've heard, we are
committed to preserving and enhancing access to high-quality cancer
care for all individuals with cancer. Our statement on financial
barriers to clinical trial participation is just one of many, where
ASCO's voice and the collective voice of our members, we hope is
helping to share and shape the future of the cancer care delivery
system.
I encourage our listeners to read this statement, as well as our
other policy and position statements. They're all available on the
policy and advocacy pages of our website at asco.org and, in this
case, through the JCO. Until next time. I want to thank everyone
for listening to this ASCO in Action Podcast and thank Dr. Moy for
joining us today.